The Catch-All Wrestling Thread (Spoilers)

[measle]

What the fuck is the difference between Smackdown and Raw?

My nephew has the WWE Smackdown Vs, Raw.  Some of the wrestlers have a Raw attribute and some Smackdown.

[Doghouse Reilly]

Two brands, same company.  Think American League versus National League in baseball.

[measle]

Aha...thanks.

So does the title bout always feature the best wrestler from each, or can two guys from RAW square off for the title? 

Smackdown Vs Raw 2007 is actually a pretty impressive game.  The realism is unbelievable.  If you were a wrestling fan, I'd say this game was a must have.  My nephew is just ape-shit for it.

[powersthatbe]

in raw they have the intercontental title and wwe title.these are the titles always indicted within the wwf/wwe brand.in smackdown they have the us title and crusierweight titile and world heavywieght title  these are the titles of the wcw brand which vince macmahon bought including its library.
and in tna they have the nwa title which is really the true one in all of wrestling.the one which has the most wrestling significance.the nwa has a  wrestling history of over 100 years.

[measle]

I wonder why they don't just make it one big wrestling organization?  Is it so they can have multiple champions?  Where does the ECW fit into all of this?

[Doghouse Reilly]

Well, the brand split which turned Raw and Smackdown! into two separate rosters was conceptualized as an attempt to have competition similar to what the WWF faced when WCW (the Ted Turner-owned organization that ran on his networks) was still around.  When the business took a downturn, the WWF was able to purchase WCW and thus own that competition.  The original plan was to revive WCW and market it as a wholly separate entity.  As the WWF had spent years programming its fans that WCW was inferior product, the plan failed, and they went with the Raw/Smackdown! format instead. 

ECW was a regional promotion most noted for innovating several wrestling styles (most famously hardcore), an attitude of rebelling against the cartoonish characters of the WWF, and a rabid fanbase.  If WWF and WCW were Marvel and DC, then ECW was Dark Horse.  Anyway, ECW was also bought out by the WWF, and the current version is just another attempt at expanding the existing product, essentially making it just brand #3, but this time using the original brand's name.  The actual current product isn't even a fraction of what the original was when it was at its best.  Of course you could pretty much say that about the entire industry now.

All three brands have their own "World" champion, as do numerous other "indy" federations (TNA is the most notable - think of them as Image Comics).  As the belts are pretty much just tools for storytelling in pro rasslin', it's useful for each brand/company to have their own top guy for everyone to pursue. 

Of course there's a whole lot more to the story than that, but those are the broadstrokes.  For a long time now, what goes on behind the scenes has been a lot more interesting than what happens on TV.

[Gardner Grayle]

From one old time wrestling fan to another (and you involved in the business), what do ya' think of the current state of the Wrestling Industry?  TNA is all but unwatchable and Vince and crew seem to be going through the motions waiting for the next Austin or Rock to show up (very unlikely with who's now on the roster).  Just wanted to know what you thought.

[Kimmel Prime]

 I'm not so much "in the business" more on the fringe I guess. I have lots of friends in it, I work shows when I can, I work Fanfest, but thats about it. I don't think I  have the stomach to deal with working in wrestling full time.


Honestly? Bottom line wise WWE is doing excellent. I know the kewl thing to do on the net is to bash the WWE, but, anyone who thinks the bottom is about to fall out on them is crazy. Cena is over where it counts, he is selling Merchandise like mad. The only thing that could derail the WWE is if Congress decides to  become assholes. Let me be frank, I don't think that its anyone's damn business if someone shoots a steroid up their ass. Its that dumbfucks problem, if it was a legit sport and there was some sort of favor being given, then sure, Congress or an outside interest should look into it. Pro Wrestling is just another facet of Hollywood. And no one gives a shit if Sly Stalone is doing Roids.

 As far as TNA, they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Russo has been living off a lie for so many years its crazy. Jeff Jarrett wants to think he is this generations Jerry Lawler, but he doesn't have the talent to be. TNA has a golden chance to actually do something, to step up and become something, but they have the most severe case of ADHD I have ever seen in my life. Every time they get a new shiny toy, they forget all about what they were building toward. WWE drops someone and they swoop in and pick the bones. Shit, they look just like WCW when WCW shut down, Kevin Nash Scott Steiner, Booker T, Sting, Jarrett. If Lugar didn't have that stroke, and Sid would return their calls they would look just like it. Don't kid yourselves as soon as Scott Hall gets out of rehab, they'll probably offer him another chance too. The only reason to watch TNA is to hear what Kurt Angle is going to say next. I swear, in his next interview he is going to claim to have taught Jesus to walk on  water. That fucker's brain is gone.

 There are some indy's that are putting on good shows, esp here in NC/SC. CWA ( CWAPROWRESTLING.COM ) is fucking excellent, and some of the indy guys out there are pretty good. ROH's fans fuck ROH up, from their moronic chants, to Gabe booking to please them no matter how stupid the idea is, ROH will never be anything more then a smart mark promotion to sell tapes to the same 1,000 ass clowns.

  Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but you always only remember the good and not the shit. It kills me when people blast the WWE for "pushing smut" or some such shit. They somehow remember wrestling as some great thing it never was. From Kevin Sullivan's Devil Worshipping  gimmick in Florida (though I admit Nevik Nivallus was off the fucking chain) to the Dirty White Girl pretending to be beat in CWF, to Lawler piledriving Rude's valet Angel in Memphis all the way to Cornette hitting Baby Doll in the stomach with his tennis racket, where she couldn't have babies anymore, then Magnum and Dusty tying a noose around Cornette's neck and trying to drag him from the back of a pick up truck, wrestling has always stooped to the bottom of the barrel. Thats why people like it. It doesn't matter who you are, everyone has some sick deranged fuck trapped inside of them. And wrestling always has and always will cater to that. For a couple of hours you get to see guys beat the shit out of each other, some half naked chicks, some really fucked up gimmicks, and angles. Hell I'd dare to say the matches today are a shit load better then they were years before.

 I think wrestling is just fine, just from the people I see at Fanfest every year, and the fact we have been going for 6 years now and everyone and their brother have  been copying it, I'd say we are quietly in the boom period or right close to it. I don't think you will ever see 8 or 9's as rating points again. Mainly because of stuff like DVR's, and more and more people switching to Sat over Cable.


 And GG, if you ever want to talk wrestling, dude, just ask. I talk about it all day long with my friends. Just don't wander around the web trying to find a site to talk about it on. You'll end up on Wrestling Classics and then you'll totally be fucked.

[Gardner Grayle]

Thanks man.  I didn't mean to suggest that the WWE was going into a slide.  It just seems to me like there is no one ready to carry the banner.  Cena is over whether a lot of fanboys like it or not.  WWE merch sells through the stratosphere.  HHH is probably the best natural heel of his generation.  Some of the Divas are amazing.  And the fact that the Undertaker, Michaels, Flair, Foley, and Kane are still around is great.  But like I say, Cena or Orten can't quite carry the company like the Rock or Austin.  Just my opinion.

As to 'roids, I disagree.  There are too many dead men under 50 in wrestling in the last ten years.  Most of 'em weren't jobbers.  The lifestyle is killing these guys.  If that many NFL or NBA players were dead, Congress would have crawled up their asses with a telescope to find the problem.

[Kimmel Prime]

I guess I have a different perspective because I have been around the boys. For the most part, its not the steroids that killing them, its all the coke they did in the 80's. You have to understand their mentality back in the day, they thought they were indestructible, and some still do. Most of the wrestlers on that list that CNN and the like will peddle around is a bunch of bunk anyway. A ton of those guys died of natural causes like Cancer or they died in car accidents. Eddy Guerrero was on steroids and all kinds of other shit in Mexico, it just finally caught up with him. Benoit, I don't care what anyone says, I know roid rage, I have seen Roid rage, Roid rage last an hour at the most, it doesn't last three fucking days. Benoit was fucking a Diva, got caught, Nancy was leaving, Benoit whacked her, and then the dipshit decided to kill his kid for whatever reason, then took the cowards way out and hung himself. And don't give me that concussion shit either, by the time that clinic got their hands on his brain it had turned to mush from the heat. And I am so tired of hearing how good of a person he was. Don't forget how he and Nancy got together,  he stole her from her husband Kevin Sullivan, then left his wife and two other children to be with Nancy. Sorry, that doesn't make him with super human being that everyone tries to paint him as.

   Hennig ODed on Coke, Liz took a prescription cocktail, Davey Boy Smith was a fucking asshole, who did more drugs then the whole fucking country of Columbia has on hand, and so on and so forth. Look at Hogan, Savage, and that moron Warrior. Those three guys did more steroids in one week then the Russian women's Tennis team does in 3 years and they are still alive and well. For every Guerrero or Pillman or Benoit, I can show you a Stan Hansen. Rick Martel, or Bobby Heenan, or Tito Santana, or Honky Tonk Man, or Dean Malenko or 2 Cold Scorpio or Al Snow who was a top guy or close to the top, who is still alive, who is a functioning normal human being.

 Take the list of wrestlers that they throw around, and compare it to the # of wrestlers who were active when they were, and you'll see its really a small percentage. Everyone wants to paint the boys as the victims, but they are anything but.  Its a tragedy that people have died, but there is no big bad Bogey man. As much as people want to paint Vince as some monster, he really isn't. The stuff that doesn't get reported in the dirt sheets or on Metzler's rag, those are the  things that show what kind of person Vince really is. Giving money to a kid to wrestle, signing second and third generation wrestlers to developmental deals even when he knows they are horrible and won't amount to shit, just to help them out. The way he treated Freddie Blassie and Ernie Ladd, the way he treats Droz for that matter. If you want someone to blame for wrestlers deaths, you can blame each and everyone of the wrestlers that have died. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but if you ever spent anytime with some of these guys you'd see it too. There is an old saying, if you were ever a mark fan of someone's never meet them, because you will be heartbroken once you spend 10 minutes in their presence.

[Gardner Grayle]

I don't doubt you at all.  I'm all about being responsible for your own actions.  But as I said, the NFL woulda' shut down if that many active players had died in such a short time.  As for Vince being a monster, I never quite bought it.  He's as much a character as the boys.  He is very serious about the wellness program too.  And for all the humiliating stuff he's done on TV, he must have a great sense of humor. 

[Kimmel Prime]

And thats were the big difference is in terms of wrestlers and NFL players. As much as  I love some of those guys, and some are my closet friends in the world. If they weren't wrestling, they would probably be a janitor somewhere. At least the guys who came up in the territory days, the kids today seem to have a better head on their shoulders, playing video games in the back instead of getting high as a kite on speedball for the hell of it.

[Gardner Grayle]

Speaking of kids, watcha' think of Cody Rhodes.  Personally, I think the fucker could be bigger than Dusty.

[Kimmel Prime]

If he keeps his head on straight and doesn't fuck around like Dustin he should be fine, and considering his dad is on the booking commitee, well that don't hurt. Though personally, while I was a fan of Dusty's, after dealing with him several times, I wouldn't piss on his head if it was on fire.

[Gardner Grayle]

I can see that he's about 98% ego and more full of shit that a Christmas goose.  And although he loves Flair like a brother, he has a "complex" about him.  Inferiority, that is.

Nine Questions with the men of Sequart

A Sequel Soliloquy: Scot Eric's Top Twelve #2's of All Time

The Golden Age Blog - Flash 11-20!

American Comics: The Illusion of Change

The Golden Age Blog - Flash 1-10!

CriticalMess interviews writer Steve Bryant!

Mess member Jim Beard helms new Batman TV book!!

Nine Questions with Pamela Des Barres

Advanced search