The Burton Batman movies are about as bad as the Schumacher ones...

[John Moores]

Batman is meant to be 25 on his first year out.

Can you guess what thread me and Ab were talking about?

[Scot Eric]

I'm sorry - once I read that Hayden Christensen should have been cast as Batman, my eyes kinda glazed over.

I also find it interesting that we vilify Miller whenever possible, but we hold up Year One as the bible of how Batman & his origins should be.  Sorry, but I'm not hopping aboard that train...

And OUTSIDE of the (overrated at least as much as TDKR) Year One series - can ANYONE HONESTLY say they've read a Batman comic book and say they thought Bats was 25?  Fuck that , fuck that, fuck that...my Bob Kane Batman was never 25, nor was Infantino, nor was Adams, nor Novick, nor Aparo, nor Rogers, nor Newton, nor Colan, nor Davis, nor any other version I read over the first 50 odd years of the Batman's existence.  To me, that weighs more heavily as to how the Batman should be cast or depicted than one 4 issue series (it was 4, right?).

[John Moores]

Batman was twenty-five when he started. I can HONESTLY say that.  In fact, on Earth-Two he was established as being born in 1915, which would make him in his 24th year as he began being Batman. It's no big deal at all, really. Twenty-five's not that young. Also, two fucking threads about this topic? If you want Batman to be 40 or 18, so be it.

But it seems like you've missed the point - of course, Infantino's, Adams', etc Batman WASN'T 25, because he'd obviously ALREADY BEEN BATMAN FOR A WHILE AT THAT POINT. When did Adams draw a fledgling Batman? That was Batman with ten years or whatever Batman-ing behind him. At some sketchy point in Batman's past, like everyone else, he was once 24 or 25 or whatever, and that's when he became the Batman. In stories that weren't the ones by Infantino or Adams, and which may not have even been told. The Adams Bats is like early thirties or whatever.

But no-one here has ever said "Batman was always and should have been eternally stuck at twenty-five in every story you've ever read".

[Abstractharmony]

I dunno.  If they can make Elijah Wood appear 3 foot tall, or Eddie Murphy into 400 lb woman, then they should be able to make Bale look a few years younger.

They did though, in the Court scene and the throwing the gun into the water he looked in his young twenties (as he was meant to).

It was when he become Batman that he was a touch to old. Hey I'm a huge fan of Begins, not the costume so much but the film plainly rocked.

[Scot Eric]

Batman was twenty-five when he started. I can HONESTLY say that.  In fact, on Earth-Two he was established as being born in 1915, which would make him in his 24th year as he began being Batman. It's no big deal at all, really. Twenty-five's not that young. Also, two fucking threads about this topic? If you want Batman to be 40 or 18, so be it.

But it seems like you've missed the point - of course, Infantino's, Adams', etc Batman WASN'T 25, because he'd obviously ALREADY BEEN BATMAN FOR A WHILE AT THAT POINT. When did Adams draw a fledgling Batman? That was Batman with ten years or whatever Batman-ing behind him. At some sketchy point in Batman's past, like everyone else, he was once 24 or 25 or whatever, and that's when he became the Batman. In stories that weren't the ones by Infantino or Adams, and which may not have even been told. The Adams Bats is like early thirties or whatever.

But no-one here has ever said "Batman was always and should have been eternally stuck at twenty-five in every story you've ever read".

I didn't realize that (the Earth-2 info).

And I know that most of those versions of Batman were not at his beginnings - I guess I want a Batman (in film) that has the feeling of those - and a few more years adds a bit more "weight" to the character - which is probably why we have almost never seen him depicted that way.

But I also agree - it's a silly point to keep talking about.  So I'll stop now.

[measle]

I'm sorry - once I read that Hayden Christensen should have been cast as Batman, my eyes kinda glazed over.

I also find it interesting that we vilify Miller whenever possible, but we hold up Year One as the bible of how Batman & his origins should be.  Sorry, but I'm not hopping aboard that train...

Not from me.  The only "raves" you'll see me give Year One is that it's Frank's best Batman work.....kind of a backhanded compliment if you think about it.  I've already stated ad nauseum that Frank's tired old mysogeny was already in effect with Selena 'who-ooer' Kyle as the Catwoman.  I liked some elements of it, like how the decision to don a costume was a necessity and things like that, but I don't hold it as a Bat-masterpiece by any stretch.  I like Nolan's 'Year One' better.

[John Moores]

I agree about the "not bothering with it anymore" (except to say that I mentioned Year One as the like-it-or-not bible of the Post-Crisis era and which explicity states an age) and I'll agree that I'd like to see a Batman movie where Batman is not starting out, has eight years behind him, a rep, a past, a history of conflict with this villain and that, but they never seem to do that.

[measle]

I've always been fine not knowing the specific details of Bruce's life after the shooting and when he came back as Batman.  They always used to do that with a few flashback panels.  You've got to leave some things up to the imagination.  When you fill us in on everything, you take imagination away from the readers.

[Coffee Joe]

Indeed.   I always felt the League of Shadows (ugh) backstory in Batman Begins was bullshit.

[Brechtbug]

I love the unexpected German Expressionist look of the Burton Batman films.  Nice esthetic blend of "Metropolis" (1927) "The Golem", "The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari" (1920) and other films of this type.  As the first "full on" Batman movies to be made (not as a TV show/film or movie/serial) I think that both hold up well.  Burton does not seem to be "into" making sequels so I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't his idea to kill off The Joker, Penguin & Catwoman (Yes, the Catwoman was killed off - the marketing department must have forced a secretary into that outfit for the last shot).  No they all shouldn't have died but that's Burton for you.  I love the fact that the Penguin was included in the films at all (my favorite Batman villan).  I have no problem with black goo coming out of Penguin's mouth.  If I ate that much whole raw fish then black fish oil would probably come out of my mouth too.  Any film with Robin in it sucked.  I was willing to give the character a try but 3 & 4 just sucked.   "Batman Begins" was great and I just know "The Dark Knight" is going to be rough to watch.

[Year6Robin]

Any film with Robin in it sucked.  I was willing to give the character a try but 3 & 4 just sucked.

As much as I hate to say it, it does seem that ROBIN cannot be pulled off seriously in a movie.

I guess in a way, it does makes sense that a sensible grown man would never endanger the life of a teenaged boy by taking him out to throw small bat shaped objects at brawny, nasty guys with guns.  Still, I wish that it could be done properly, so that people could see ROBIN done in a proper light.

[measle]

As much as I hate to say it, it does seem that ROBIN cannot be pulled off seriously in a movie.

I guess in a way, it does makes sense that a sensible grown man would never endanger the life of a teenaged boy by taking him out to throw small bat shaped objects at brawny, nasty guys with guns.  Still, I wish that it could be done properly, so that people could see ROBIN done in a proper light.

I think it can be done right.  Unfortunately the film-makers seem as embarrassed by the concept as they think the audience will be, and sort of give it a half-assed, timid effort, like "OK, don't shoot us, we know this is going to suck....".  Robin is no less believable than an omnipotent alien from a now dead planet that can fly and shoot heat rays from his eye. 

[Coffee Joe]

Robin is no less believable than an omnipotent alien from a now dead planet that can fly and shoot heat rays from his eye. 

Quote of the day!

[Abstractharmony]

Here's an example of how Robin could be done properly -

The shots in Daredevil of the young Matt Murdock. Perfection. That's hiow Robin should be handled.

[Marv-El]

I don't recall a ton of complaints about the Green Hornet endangering Kato. Was he seen as older, better able to take care of himself, or just lower profile so no one cared?

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