how fuggin miserable are warner execs right now about marvel movies...

[pootboy]

"what's up with your mojo?....seriously, what's up with you mojo??!!".  jesus, you sound like every other woman in my life, SD.    it used to be -6969.  I think it's just measle trying to be funny, which as we all know is the best time to clench your eyes shut tight as you can and cover your ears and hum.

i'm not saying marvel is cooler.  when i was a kid the spider-man cartoon (along with star trek, naturally) was the holiest of holies, but when it came to actually reading comics, i probably found spidey inaccessible.  i was all about supes and JLA.  superman was my launching pad but I eventually settled on GL as my main man.   years later i discovered x-men (at the best possible time, pretty much), and finally figured out the appeal of marvel (i remember somebody lending me an old hulk comic around the time when "dc comics presents" was my crown jewel, reading it and being like "jesus fucking christ, NOTHING happens, they're talking about shit that makes no sense, and every other panel is asterisked and references a DIFFERENT comic that i've never heard of.  FUCK YOU HULK YOU POINTY EARED BASTARD."

obviously at the time the companies had a very different approach, DC skewing towards kids and marvel towards tweens and teens.  that got all jumbled up though with watchmen and teen titans and dark knight.  

but nowadays i'll take a DC comic almost any day of the week.  x-continuity is so fucking messed up, spider-man is so fucking depressing, fuck all that, now that i'm all groweds up i'll take DC's emphasis on storytelling (such as it is) over, like, mutant love triangles and shit.  

anyhow, let's see if i have a point here.  yes, on some level, DC is your father's superheroes.  just how it is.  they were conceived during a simpler time.  it's still reflected in who they are and how they're written.  and marvel is still your dirty draft-dodger hippy uncle's counterculture heroes.   (cap being the exception because he is really the only surviving marvel hero [besides namor] from the 40's-- and i haven't seen the movie, but i'm sure in avengers he gets mocked mercilessly for it).   now, the movies superhero universe still being in it's, let's say, adolescence, it's growing up kind of the same way comics did--  DC blazed the trail with superman and batman in the 70's and 80's, paralleling the 30's, 40's, and 50's, then marvel finally hits it big with x-men and spiderman in the 90's and 00's as dc's heroes are kind of mothballed as old news, paralleling the 60's and 70's, DC struggles to reinvent itself, and does to a degree, a la the 80's, with the rebooted "dark knight" batman and watchmen, in the late 00's and 10's, just as marvel is hitting it's massive breakout success now, just as they were in the mid-late 80's.  so basically all we have to do is look back to what happened around 1988 in the comic world to see what's gonna happen next in the movie world.  

by that metric, marvel's gonna kick ass for a while, DC's gonna pull some cheesy/bizarre stunts to prove they're not square anymore, daddy-o (death of superman, break batman's back, green lantern kills everybody), then the 90's is gonna happen all over again, but in the movies-- the cinematic equivalent of laminated foil covers, hopelessly convoluted and diluted storylines, assloads of cash-grabbing dreck, and then the great implosion.

christ, hadn't really thought about it this way till i typed it out.  guess we better get ready to play that silly game all over again.

[pootboy]

and, not to be too much of a debbie downer, but considering the parallel paths of the comic and movie world, things don't look good for DC movies.  watchmen and dark knight was DC's high-water mark, and they've never reached those heights again, in my ridiculously humble opinion, ergo we have already seen the best movies DC is ever going to make.  marvel is doing things slightly backwards, enjoying their avengers success POST x-men, which will burn for a while-- but again, after the initial burn, marvel's hand was played.  the spider-man wad is blown, so is x-men-- punisher, daredevil, ghost rider, fantastic four, silver surfer...dead in the water-- avengers wad will be blown by the third one...the public will still WANT more but by then BOTH companies are out of heavy artillery.  

is the american public ready to spend their summers watching tier-2 books on screen ... new mutants?  power pack?  teen titans?   JSA?  firestorm?  jack of hearts?  cinder and ashe?  tailgunner jo?  captain carrot?  yummyfur?

i know i am, but then again, i ain't exactly normal.

[Rod Keith]

But what 'heights' has Marvel ever reached? They've never had a Dark Knight or Watchmen equivalent in the comics at all. They've been chugging away on the admittedly supernova-like Lee/Kirby/Ditko Silver Age inspiration since their inception, and frankly, aside from Giant-Sized X-Men #1, there's been very little true new energy added that wasn't basically present from birth. whereas I see DC has been a far more elastic company in challenging its own basic premises over the years.

I think I take exception to the belief that there's something inherently unworkable about DC's characters that doesn't translate to other media (or even into comics itself, as they develop).

The reason they haven't succeeded is because Warner Brothers overthinks and micro-manages its concepts to death. Constantine is a great example. Take the British-ness out of the character and they've missed the point entirely. Turn Jonah Hex into a supernatural story and ditto. Make Superman a brooding, removed misfit instead of the hero that every kid wants to be because it's fun to be super-powered, and you've lost the essence.

That to me is the problem with translating DC heroes. They're usually so simple (by which I mean basic) in concept that the producers think they have to add so much more to make them work for 'sophisticated' modern audiences, when all they have to do is tell us a good story with the essence of what people like about the character(s) intact. Stop gilding the lily and stay true to what made the concept work in the first place. And hire the right people to abide by that.

And THAT is why the Avengers films have succeeded and-- to stay within Marvel's backyard-- why the Fantastic Four films failed. Lesson learned in time for Iron Man. Marvel got it. Hopefully someone at WB will get it... eventually.

[Aquaman71]

There are plenty of properties to be done for DC which would rock.  They just need to be handled the correct way.  Marvel has done well on the big screen by intertwining several properties.  If DC did that with the Big 7, I think it would rock as well. 
I liked Green Lantern in parts but will admit that it was bad.  But, I still think that a sequel is gonna show itself in some manner.
Flash would be a great property to tackle.
Wonder Woman would kick all kinds of ass to me. 
Aquaman---would be a unique movie experience which could have a totally alien type of feel exploring the oceans. 
Doom Patrol would be a lot of fun with slightly damaged characters making their way in the world.
but in my opinion, New Teen Titans may be their most bankable property other than Superman/Batman.

[Scot Eric]

Rod Keith's words ring true and genuine.

[Hyperion]

...and they need the WB execs to stay the FUCK out of the way.  Let the creators create.

This!^

The problem with NTT as it stands is that as a movie property it will end up needing to be a string of origin stories all jammed together.  That would fuck up any good storyline they chose to put forward.  The same could be said about any team movie.

Conversely- the Doom Partol could work great because everyone's origin ties to the central character of the Chief, making a coherant story possible.

Checkmate

Suicide Squad (a WWII, Weird War Tales version done as a mix of Inglorious Bastards/Dirty Dozen)

Captain Marvel (this would be PERFECT for the kids!  Origin story.  Kid getting super powers.  Mr Tawky Tawny.   Sivana and Black Adam (The Rock!))

Birds of Prey martial arts/spy thriller somewhere between Sucker Punch and Bourne

Warlord- Sword, sorcery and DINOSAURS!!  That has kid's movie written all over it.  Throw in the fur bikini clad shape shifter for dads and lots of sweaty bare-chested men for moms.

Jonah Hex done correctly.  Hand it to Clint to direct and produce.

[Gardner Grayle]

^

Pound of truth. 

I've always thought that there are few better names for movies than Doom Patrol or Suicide Squad.

Amethyst would be great for pre teen and tween girls.  Kamandi could be done like Planet of the Apes on meth and acid. 

Unknown Soldier could be awesome and wipe away the shame of the Losers.  I think Sleeper could redefine the spy genre.  And IMHO, DC has so much more depth than Marvel, it ain't funny.  But guess what...if you act like a loser from the get-go, you are going to be a loser from the get-go.  DC is so used to being in second place, they act like that's where they belong.  Comics, movies, toys, etc.   

One final thought:  With the current popularity of fantasy movies featuring Greek gods and Greek mythology, isn't it about time for a Hercules Unbound flick?  The gods return is a post apocalyptic world.  It sells itself.   

[Chip Cataldo]

I want to see a Metal Men movie.  Make Chemo the villain and it's win city.

Peace,

Chip

[Marv-El]

If a Metal Men movie were to happen, it would be a direct-to-dvd 75 minute not-so-spectacular.

I'd still buy it.

I'd love a DC Showcase grindhouse thing, with Metal Men, Enemy Ace, Warlord, Kamandi, and GI Robot fifteen-minute reels.

[pootboy]

oh you silly, silly little cockmites.  you're getting what's GOOD confused with what SELLS.  sure they occasionally the twain shall meet, but then a again a reese witherspoon transformers movie about jesus meeting justin bieber would break the avengers record by a factor of 10.  

rod made a good point about the golden goose eggs.  there's only so many to go around, and both companies have been living off the shavings for decades.  with DC it's superbats, with marvel it's the lee/kirby creations.  that's where the money is.  that's what's captured the public imagination for the last 80 years.  not doom patrol, not the metal men, not kid kamandi.   all that other stuff came later to satisfy the insatiable hunger that came AFTER we ran out of the sweet stuff.  they turned us into junkies, and they knew we would chase the dragon wherever it took us, even if it was a "swords of the swashbucklers" graphic novel for $6.95.

but that's us, not the movie-going public.  fat people from michigan and their fat kids under formfitting red lap-trays brimming with liquid cheese.  we're talking about summer blockbusters, here, guys, not masterpiece theater.  

so here's my springer final thought--  each top-shelf character is like a nickel-mine with a limited amount of yield.  at some point, you tap the bitch out and you have no choice but to board it up.  superman and batman, movie-wise, have reached that point.  x-men, spider-man, ff-- reached it.  avengers-- after 3 avengers movies, 3 iron man movies, 2 hulk, 2 cap, 2 thor-- oh you better believe that shit is done.  

maybe at that point there really will be a creative explosion, and we will see a smartening up of the genre, cinematically, because the dollars, they WILL have stopped flowing.  as CGI gets cheaper, maybe we will see spectacularly rich and nuanced second tier characters getting studio backing.  that'd be swell.  but these hollywood hebes are pretty slow on the uptake, considering they live and die by the whims of drooling 11 year olds with ADHD, so if i were you i'd take your vitamins, cuz you're gonna have to live to about 189 to see it happen.

[Marv-El]

Justice League movie? I was glad to see TDKR trumpeted as the end of Nolan's trilogy. The trailer looked like a dull episode of Law and Order: SVU with a bat-eared guy added. I'm ready for an engaging Batman, a boy-scout Superman and generally likeable heroes in a DC movie called...the Super Friends. Name recognition is there, with Family Guy and MAD leading the parade. And you know, even with the cynical take from Seth Macfarlane, people don't go to these movies to laugh at them. If Checkmate or some such group wanted to administate the DC group like SHIELD does the Avengers, just imagine the heroes turning that offer aside with "Justice League? We're not here to administer justice. We're just...Super Friends." Josh Holloway could roll his eyes as Green Arrow, but Bradley Cooper as the Flash would give his Midwest grin of approval. John Stewart beams the Watchtower into existence (or maybe the satellite.) WW and Batman train the Titans. It could be fun, and the Avengers showed us this kind of movie can and should be fun.

[fishmilkshake]

Justice League movie? I was glad to see TDKR trumpeted as the end of Nolan's trilogy. The trailer looked like a dull episode of Law and Order: SVU with a bat-eared guy added.

For such a hyped film I couldn't agree more. The trailer did nothing for me. Seeing Batman fighting in the middle of the street during daytime is just weird. And as for the Lumberjack who is the main villain it just plain doesn't work. Comics are visual first. Take Superman out of costume and put him in something else and he's not Superman anymore. That's not Bane to me. They might be distancing him from that other film but it just reduces my interest when I can't see characters I love on screen.

Would this really have not worked?

[Scot Eric]

No, Batman vs. Nacho Libre probably would not have worked.

[Big Raj]

 

[Gadabout]

For such a hyped film I couldn't agree more. The trailer did nothing for me. Seeing Batman fighting in the middle of the street during daytime is just weird. And as for the Lumberjack who is the main villain it just plain doesn't work. Comics are visual first. Take Superman out of costume and put him in something else and he's not Superman anymore. That's not Bane to me. They might be distancing him from that other film but it just reduces my interest when I can't see characters I love on screen.

Would this really have not worked?

Visually that looks way better to me than this.



It's all personal preference I guess but that Bane you posted looks scary and more importantly to me, because I'm some sort of nutty comic nerd or whatever, looks like the actual character he's based on.

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