how fuggin miserable are warner execs right now about marvel movies...

[pootboy]

...beating them at the game they invented?  DC has precisely 1 and a half bankable movie properties.   i.e. batman (1), and superman (1/2).  (in reality only 1, half supes and half bats, considering batman would still be a $200 million box office per flick draw, same as supes, if it weren't for heath ledger keeling over.  dark knight really, really wasn't that good, kids.)

Marvel has, like, what, 8?  avengers, iron man, x-men, wolverine (counts separately, for obvious reasons), spider-man, then a half-credit apiece for thor, cap, hulk, ff.  yeah they're about to hit the wall hard and eat a heaping plate of shit with ant-man and sub-mariner movies, but that's 5 years down the road, and by then they can just reboot everything all over again.

green lantern crashing signaled the end of days for any DC b-listers.  (granted, they dropped the ball with awful, awful plot and writing, but even if that wasn't the case it would've topped out at $200 mil). he was their biggest B gun, below him is just glorified SNL sketches.  wonder woman is pure kitsch.   may as well have bette midler play the lead. flash, hawkman, martian manspincter, aquaman, black canary, green arrow, atom-- no fuckin way any of these guys could support a blockbuster solo.  they could pull off a JLA movie, but that's about it, and it would make half what avengers makes, on a good day.  dc heroes are like crayola crayons, cinematically-- very simple, one-note do-gooders with a very limited, specific ability.  (the exceptions being their biggest properties, ironically-- batman, whose "superpower" is punching people, and superman, the opposite-- so powerful there's very little you can do but shoot him with a kyrpitonite bullet every other monday).

we're seeing now, in the movies, the exact same thing the comics world experienced in the 60's-70's, the buying public turning away from the clean, brightly-lit, pulp sci-fi andventure world of DC to the murky, messy, angsty, horny world of marvel comics.

if i were a warner movies exec i would be shopping for a tail=pipe hose right about now.  there is just no way to marvel-ify dc's characters enough to make them viable movie properties.  they are just plain fucked.  batman is going to run out of steam this summer-- the movie's box office will be but a fraction of the last one, minus heath hysteria and after avengers and spider-man fatigue, not to mention it's billed as the "final" batman movie.  superman will probably just barely out-do the last bag of crap, the bean-counters will grumble, and the party, i think, will officially be over.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Point from me!

Peace,

Chip

[urbanmyth]

While watching the Avengers flying ship take off today, I was thinking DC's best bet may be to lead with (or follow Man of Steel with) a full blown JLA movies with a new (but somehow equally engaging Batman) meeting at the Watchtower and taking on some cool Alien threat (or the Brother Eye/Checkmate device might work for something less Alien).  They are so far behind that they need to go big and quick.  And keep anyone tied to the GL movie away from this one (use John Stewart GL). 

[SDcomics]

Well, well, well.  What have we here?

:::cracks knuckles:::  Let's begin.

DC has precisely 1 and a half bankable movie properties.   i.e. batman (1), and superman (1/2).  (in reality only 1, half supes and half bats, considering batman would still be a $200 million box office per flick draw, same as supes, if it weren't for heath ledger keeling over.  dark knight really, really wasn't that good, kids.)

Don't know if I agree with that, but time will tell if you're right or not.

And what the hell is up with your mojo?

Marvel has, like, what, 8?  avengers, iron man, x-men, wolverine (counts separately, for obvious reasons), spider-man, then a half-credit apiece for thor, cap, hulk, ff.  yeah they're about to hit the wall hard and eat a heaping plate of shit with ant-man and sub-mariner movies, but that's 5 years down the road, and by then they can just reboot everything all over again.

Prior to 2008, the thinking among retailers and theater chain owners was that Marvel had no real bankable properties beyond X-Men and Spider-Man.  That's why retailers like Wal-Mart and Target ordered so light on the Iron Man movie toys.

Then the Iron Man movie came out.  And the paradigm changed.

That proves that in the right hands, even B and C list characters can be a hit.  I wouldn't write off Ant-Man and Sub-Mariner so quick.  Or the Inhumans, Dr. Strange, Guardians of the Galaxy or whatever else Marvel chooses to do.  Kevin Feige seems to know what he's doing.

green lantern crashing signaled the end of days for any DC b-listers.  (granted, they dropped the ball with awful, awful plot and writing, but even if that wasn't the case it would've topped out at $200 mil).

No, but I think it may have signaled the end of Geoff Johns as a movie producer.  I think Green Lantern would have done a lot better if he hadn't been involved.

he was their biggest B gun, below him is just glorified SNL sketches.  wonder woman is pure kitsch.   may as well have bette midler play the lead. flash, hawkman, martian manspincter, aquaman, black canary, green arrow, atom-- no fuckin way any of these guys could support a blockbuster solo.  they could pull off a JLA movie, but that's about it, and it would make half what avengers makes, on a good day.  dc heroes are like crayola crayons, cinematically-- very simple, one-note do-gooders with a very limited, specific ability.  (the exceptions being their biggest properties, ironically-- batman, whose "superpower" is punching people, and superman, the opposite-- so powerful there's very little you can do but shoot him with a kyrpitonite bullet every other monday).

I don't know if I agree with any of that.  I bet Joss Whedon could make a cool Wonder Woman movie.  I don't think it's the characters, I think it's the people who have been handling them up to now.

we're seeing now, in the movies, the exact same thing the comics world experienced in the 60's-70's, the buying public turning away from the clean, brightly-lit, pulp sci-fi andventure world of DC to the murky, messy, angsty, horny world of marvel comics.

Captain America is an old-fashioned, clean, brightly-lit pulp hero.  There's still a place in the world for those.  Not everyone wants grim and gritty all the time.

if i were a warner movies exec i would be shopping for a tail=pipe hose right about now.  there is just no way to marvel-ify dc's characters enough to make them viable movie properties.

Here's what I would do if I were Barry M. Meyer, the CEO of Warner Brothers.  I'd walk up behind Grant Morrison, tap him on the shoulder, and say "Here's a wheelbarrow full of cash.  Please write us a Justice League movie script".



Tell me that WOULDN'T make a kick ass movie.

Warner Brothers have been around for nearly 100 years.  They're the same studio that brought us Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon, The Matrix, Inception, The Harry Potter franchise.   They know how to make movies.  It's just a matter of getting the right people.

We live in a world where the Aquaman comic outsells the X-Men and Spider-Man.  I never thought I would see that, but it's happened.  I know we can see that on the big screen, too.

Mike
(Listen, I love Marvel, but I don't buy the argument that Marvel characters are inherently better and cooler than DC characters.  Sorry.  And what the fuck is up with your mojo?)

[Dave Cormier]

As a lifelong DC guy and only a passive Marvel fan, it makes my heart ache to see this asskicking unfold in front of me year after year.

DC has Superman and Batman, and V For Vendetta and Watchmen were pretty good. That...that's about it. Green Lantern has been my thing for almost 30 years now; everything thing I collect and read is due to my love for the concept. And it breaks my heart that the mediocre flick they made ended up not being the monster comic movie it could have been.

And with WB being at the helm for so many of DC's properties, I really don't see them finding a way to get Marvel's oversized boot out of their ass. It's fucking humiliating. I'm ROOTING for DC to come out with a win, but I just don't see it happening.

[Hyperion]

Actually, now that you mention it, Checkmate would be a great Bond-esque type thriller.  You can put in King Faraday, Sarge Steel and Amanda Waller.  Tie in the Suicide Squad somehow and have them go up against HIVE.

You can have a great triller and keep the superhero aspects down to a minimum.  Maybe just quick scenes on a monitor or something.

You could do the same thing with Birds of Prey by playing on the martial arts/spy angle and only have someone like Power Girl swoop in at the last second to redirect a missle that the rest of the team couldn't get to.  Villain could be Vandal Savage.

[Gadabout]

I asked about the characters versus the creators of the movies in another thread. Mike's point about Iron Man is a good one. When that was coming out I was mildly interested, mostly because of RDJ. I will never forget leaving that movie and driving ten minutes in the wrong direction because I was on such a high.

I wish I felt half as good leaving Green Lantern or Superman Returns. Characters I love.

[powersthatbe]

gotta remember Blade was the movie that got the marvel monster rolling in 1996,so I suggest that DC take a C list character and make it work then move on to the B characters(A being superman and batman which is already being done regardless of course).Wasn't there a rumor that the Sgt.Rock movie was going to be in the future or some nonsense?anyway,WB should do something like Doom Patrol or Challengers of the Unknown or Deadman.

[Rex Tyler]

I don't know if I agree with any of that.  I bet Joss Whedon could make a cool Wonder Woman movie.  I don't think it's the characters, I think it's the people who have been handling them up to now.

Gotta agree with you here. I wasn't expecting much from Natasha in Avengers, but Joss Whedon and everybody else involved did their thing.

[JSayonara]

Warners' are arses.

How in the fuck could you take Catwoman and get this shit?

They could have just adapted Brubaker's superb run...but no.

Oh well, how about cowboys?
EVERYONE loves Clint right?

And look DC have a cowboy who kicks ass in all manner of ways.
And Josh Brolin would be perfect for the role, so..

Ahhh, FUCK.

Nevermind, there's still a ton of fucking great source material out there in DC land.

John Constantine's a bad-ass.
He could easily carry a supernatural flick with tons of spooky and evil shit going down.
Get a cool English actor as lead, cast actors like Stephen Fry, Michael Gambon, Michael Caine, set it in the nastier parts of London and...

Even better, set it in L.A with Keanu fucking Reeves in the lead.

BOLLOCKS!

Moving on.

Green Lantern would be amazing, it's got the qualities to be the next Star Wars and an amazing visual experience to boot.

A good writer could knock that one out of the park, it's a good job we've got Geoff Johns, a man who's proved his love of history and what came before and not just a hack who loves to cram in his rainbow crap into everything...

Double fuck.

But hey, at least we've got the chance of seeing a Sgt Rock movie...in space...set in 2120..

Fuck.

But wait, didn't I hear about Supermax?
A movie set in a prison filled with the scum of the DCU, and the lead character's going to be an un-costumed Green Arrow..

See what I fucking mean.

How the fuck can these guys not get Guillermo del Toro on Deadman or Tarantino on The Spectre or Jim Carrey as Plastic Man?

Nope they're determined, to both hire absolute cretins with a proven history of fucking up (Akiva Goldsman?) and not sticking with the established script.

Meanwhile, Marvel get Joss Wheedon, Kenneth Branagh, Jon Favreau and Sam Raimi.

DC movies (that ain't Batman) are a lost cause.

[Gardner Grayle]

Something I hate to admit is agreeing with poot, but I think I do in this situation.  This is an ass-kicking of monumental proportions.  If Batman doesn't do well this summer, you may as well turn out the lights.  It's fucking over.  The good thing is Batman should be huge and there's every indication it will be.  Superman...I dunno.

But I also agree with Mike.  DC simply needs to get better people involved.  And along with that, when developmental meetings are going on for DC properties to be turned into films, anyone from DC Comics should be ejected from the meeting and the door locked on him/her.  Also call security and have them removed from the premises.

My solution for DC if I were in charge is to steer far away from the mainstream superhero stuff.  Kamandi, Warlord, and Amethyst all offer entire worlds to play in without regards to any larger continuity.  And with current makeup techniques and CGI, all three could be done convincingly.  The War That Time Forgot is a brilliant concept.  Demon Knights (I know nU 52) could piggyback on the Hobbit and the Narnia movies.  Adam Strange could be a Star Wars like epic with a big enough budget.  And there are shitloads more.  Spy stuff; how about Sleeper?  Pure genius.  DC has the concepts.  Now they need the proper treatment.  

[SDcomics]

Meanwhile, Marvel get Joss Wheedon, Kenneth Branagh, Jon Favreau and Sam Raimi.

At one point, Joss was signed on to do a Wonder Woman movie.  He wrote a script, and the geniuses at Warners tossed it.

Bet they're kicking themselves now.

DC movies (that ain't Batman) are a lost cause.

For now.

Mike
(But things tend to change.  Especially when shareholders demand it.  I predict a regime change at Warners before the year is out.  Then we'll see what the new guard can do.)

[Gadabout]

http://movies.ign.com/articles/122/1224359p1.html

It was weird. I left here thinking about Whedon doing DC and then saw this IGN "article" where he talks about being rejected for Batman.

[Benjamin Grimm]

But I also agree with Mike.  DC simply needs to get better people involved.  And along with that, when developmental meetings are going on for DC properties to be turned into films, anyone from DC Comics should be ejected from the meeting and the door locked on him/her.  Also call security and have them removed from the premises.

...and they need the WB execs to stay the FUCK out of the way.  Let the creators create.

Peace,

Chip

[JSayonara]

Mike
(But things tend to change.  Especially when shareholders demand it.  I predict a regime change at Warners before the year is out.  Then we'll see what the new guard can do.)

I surely hope so.

Having said which, for all the fun it is seeing these movies, I blame them for fucking with our hobby.

DCnu is a direct result of "must get the movie crowd".

Marvel, although a little more subtle, have been changing things in the comics to fit the flicks since Blade.

The worst thing is, the movie crowd don't give a fuck about the comics.
They see the film, they enjoy it, they wait for the sequel.

I hope the bandwagon does die, so we can get our hobby back for a while until it starts over again.

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