The Unlikely Road to Becoming a Screenwriter

[Scot Eric]

Glad you agree!  And hey, is that technically the first feedback I've gotten from you regarding "Sun"?  Cool -- I thought the multiple protagonist thing was a little problematic since they're not together till well into the story (unlike a magnificent seven kinda thing -- where a team is set up early on).

When one person expressed a BIT of confusion about the time devoted to Calvin in the first section...the teacher said it was like Holt is Luke Skywalker and Calvin is Han Solo.  Not a real fit for the actual characters -- but he helped make the point that you gotta give Solo a lotta face time despite Luke being the main hero -- which is what I'm doing as well -- Holt's the main guy -- but Calvin needs his own scenes as well.  Sundance to Butch and so on...

Funny that I sent you those "new" 27 pages -- and now I have to go back and chop some stuff outta there -- as well as add something (to the 2nd "death" scene) too.  Ah, the never ending rewriting process...

MINOR UPDATE RE: SITCOM

LA friend contacted me today...some good feedback from connected people regarding what we've done so far...we've been told there is a 3 - 4 month "window" right now where they are working on scripts for the following season -- so it will behoove us to get the thing locked down and completed sooner rather than later -- then pass it up the ladder to see what happens.

Yeah -- he didn't use the word behoove -- that was all me.

[Scot Eric]

Oh yeah -- I totally forgot...the funniest compliment paid to the 27 pages was some saying it was FAR better (coherence/story/dialogue) than anything in the "Jonah Hex" movie.  This guy -- while knowing I'm a comic book fan based on the shirts I've worn to class (Aquaman, Hawkman, Atom, Green Arrow, Demon)...would have had no idea how big a fan I am of the character (if not the movie).  He also said it may have seemed like faint praise considering how bad the "Hex" movie was...

[measle]

Scot, this is awesome man.  I love to see shit pay off for people that are passionate about something and bust their ass the way you have the last couple years.  I'm already thinking of where we can have the CriticalMess Oscar party the night folks recognize your talents and efforts.   

[Scot Eric]

Thanks Meas...although right now I'm just some dumb schmuck who has almost two screenplays (hard for me to count the 2nd one until I know I'm truly done with it and can then move on to the 3rd one).  Despite any praise I've gotten on my writing from both friends and strnagers/people connected to "the biz" -- I also realize that every other person in Los Angeles has a script or two.  So it's a good thing I don't live in Los Angeles (ba-dum-bum).

Yes, I now have this opportunity/window (that I have been rather skeptical about -- despite what Mister Hollywood tells me) to get a co-writing credit for a future episode of an existing sitcom.  

Of course -- I think they'll take the teleplay, maybe pay us off a few hundred bucks, and perhaps use a couple ideas or joke -- but that's it.  I still have a really hard time believing they'll accept it as an actual episode script -- regardless of the fact that they've apparently done that before.

In any case -- think it's best to keep myself grounded.  Guess we'll know one way or the other at some point next year...

[Rod Keith]

Sent you an email, SC!

[Coffee Joe]

Do you have an agent, Scot?  If so, why not?

I feel terrible that I haven't been able to sit down and read "Sun," especially considering my whirlwind turnaround time on The White Whale.  But if you want to send me the revised first act, I can probably fit that in sometime this week.

Things have been crazy here, and i'm a bit behind on my own writing projects because of it.

[Scot Eric]

Rod -- woke up way to early (for a Sunday) and read your e-mail, and have sent you a response.  Thanks dude!

Joe -- no worries -- I figure you got a lot going on, plus your physical maladies probably already add to your time/stress.  Maybe I'll pull something together in a couple weeks, and send you AND Rod that -- it would be the revised first act plus anywhere from ten to 30 pages of the second act (depends on my own time issues).

I also assume you meant if I DON'T have an agent, why not...

Long story -- let's just say if things work out -- then at some point in the next year or two -- I probably would get some form of representation, be it an agent or a manager.  Right now -- I'm simply not a person who merits such a thing as of yet.

[Scot Eric]

I'm essentially posting this here almost more for my own note-keeping benefit, as well as for the one or two folks who have/will read any of the current screenplay project...

After a decent amount of feedback from my class, Rod & my LA buddy...here’s a summation of the changes made in Act 1:

MINOR alterations & edits:

~ I’ve deleted some of the 408,230 references to Tim Holt as a "blacksmith" -- as I think the point was made and then some.  I believe the word now only appears six times in the first 36 pages, and the one time Holt uses it shouldn't even count, right?  Whatever...

~ I’ve cut out some extraneous and needlessly flashy dialogue.  For example: one bit of taunting in the graveyard is enough, don't need it doubled, or Abigail using a few too many Old West Slang phrases in the same passage of dialogue.  As well as a few other instances where it just felt like a BIT much -- or one instance where it appeared I had planted an idea I didn't want to actually use (such as the Holts considering having another child).

~ Many of the edits were done to make it move just a little MORE smoothly, and to pick up the pace a little more too.

~I transposed some dialogue between Holt & the Sheriff to a later brief scene which is inter-cut with the revised 2nd "death" scene (more on that later).

MAJOR alterations:

~ I’ve edited out the John Smith (bounty hunter) character ENTIRELY.  A few folks who read my FIRST draft thought there may have been "too many protagonists" (like Rod).  It was tough, because many (including those people) also really liked the handful of John Smith scenes that led up to his eventual arrival in Longbones.  So I was sticking with that trio as I headed into the 2nd draft...

BUT...what really convinced me to make the change is that if anyone's going to be doing a little detective-like work here and there -- it should be Holt (this was pointed out by at least one person in class).  So – that isn’t merely déjà-vu any previous readers will be feeling when they see an upcoming scene with Holt finding a blood encrusted button.

I realize that the story needs to keep its focus on the town and on Holt whenever possible.  This change will probably impact my THIRD act more than anything else, as certain scenes/deaths will have to be completely rewritten now...but I'll worry about that when I get there...I already have the changes in mind after some back & forth with Rod & my West Coast supporter.

And lest not I forget the other “major” change…

~ I’ve rewritten the 2nd "murder" -- so it doesn't feel SO similar to the first one.  I had to agree with the opinion expressed in class – having both murders happen in the stagecoach robs some of the suspense/surprise from the overall scene.  The revised version is pretty much the same all the way up the Vampire saying "Whiskey. Vile liquid." -- but now Willie bursts out of the coach (as his arm gets slashed by one of the Vampire's talons).

He falls on his ass & as he's scrambling backwards,  he sees the thing's eyes/teeth.  He gets to his feet and RUNS.  

Inter-cut to the saloon, where I've transplanted some dialogue between Holt & the Sheriff (the bit about "visions of Stan/magical coyotes") -- then cut back to Willie careening around the corner and stumbling towards the saloon doors.  From inside the saloon -- we (but nobody else) see Willie ABOUT to enter, but then those large pale hands shoot down from above him and yank him straight up, with no one the wiser.  Outside the saloon, as the doors swing back & forth -- a couple drops of blood pelt the floorboards.

Even with the additional material -- the editing saved me about 1 1/3rd pages...so this section would actually begin a third of the way down Page 26.  And for those who were concerned about how many characters there appeared to be...get ready, because they'll be meeting at least five more (Boyd’s father & two brothers, Jonas – a close friend of Holt’s, and Simon, the town’s “errand boy”)  Pretty sure that will “do it” as far as any new characters are concerned!   ;^)

Rod -- if you'd either (a) like to read all 52 (I think that's where I left off) pages together -- or, based on already knowing the changes made in Act 1..(b) just receive & read pages 26 to 52 -- let me know.

And Joe -- as always -- if you'd like to read this first "half" of the screenplay so far -- more than happy to send you a PDF.  If you'd rather wait until later this year/early next year and read the whole thing in one fell swoop, that's OK too.  I've been doing it THIS way to get feedback as I go along so I can make this draft as good as possible and reduce whatever rewriting would have to be done once it's all finished.  I have a dream that this will be the "last draft" -- and I can then look to figuring out what my next screenplay would be...but that may be foolish thinking on my part.

AS FOR THE SITCOM SITUATION...

I've been in contact with my co-writer on the project...we had gotten a lot done with it -- starting to really feel like an actual episode...but I went back to the first season of this show when I learned of an episode that may have some similar content.  The plot/gags are mostly different (maybe two jokes/moments would have to be tossed), but the main setting was also in a nightclub.  So -- I expressed my concerns to my LA counterpart, as I went from feeling fairly confident to pretty concerned about it.  We'll talk more later - but he's partially set my mind at ease (we can actually reference that episode once or twice).  

I'll be burrowing in to work on it after the holidays.  I don't have any days off until the 3rd of December -- so it may have to be mostly tabled until then.  After I get more work done on THAT -- I'll return to "When the Sun Goes down" (assuming I haven't already gotten additional feedback that would lead to changes before I hand in my latest pages on December 1st).

[Rod Keith]

The changes sound good!


And yeah, happy to read the whole she-bang from the beginning again; I'm a sucker for liking to see the impact of any changes, even minor ones.


Also, as a side-note, I actually liked the John Smith character a lot-- I just felt I'd rather see him in his own movie. Sequel...?

[Scot Eric]

Also, as a side-note, I actually liked the John Smith character a lot-- I just felt I'd rather see him in his own movie. Sequel...?

Perhaps if I decide to revisit the genre again in a future screenplay -- I can resurrect him.  Especially since the end of WTGD does hint strongly at the possibility of a sequel...

Unless I have him travel through time and meet George and Hank from "The White Whale"    Goshems -- then I can rip off even MORE Stephen King stuff (Dark Tower)...

[Scot Eric]

AS FOR THE SITCOM SITUATION...

I've been in contact with my co-writer on the project...we had gotten a lot done with it -- starting to really feel like an actual episode...but I went back to the first season of this show when I learned of an episode that may have some similar content.  The plot/gags are mostly different (maybe two jokes/moments would have to be tossed), but the main setting was also in a nightclub.  So -- I expressed my concerns to my LA counterpart, as I went from feeling fairly confident to pretty concerned about it.  We'll talk more later - but he's partially set my mind at ease (we can actually reference that episode once or twice).  

I'll be burrowing in to work on it after the holidays.  I don't have any days off until the 3rd of December -- so it may have to be mostly tabled until then.  After I get more work done on THAT -- I'll return to "When the Sun Goes down" (assuming I haven't already gotten additional feedback that would lead to changes before I hand in my latest pages on December 1st).

I've discovered a rather bizarre phenomenon that has happened several times over the years: the creative writing part of my brain (a tiny, malignant tumor most likely) switches into hyperdrive most often when I'm on a bus.  Five minutes into the ride home last night -- all of a sudden I realized how we could proceed with the sitcom script.  I "cracked" it -- and much like the Earth itself cracking -- about seven to ten ideas bubbled forth.  When I got home, I started hammering out an e-mail to my co-writer -- who actually called me while I was typing away.  Ten minutes of excited pacing back and forth as I rattled off my ideas ensued -- and now we're definitely back on track once again.

That's just how it happens sometimes...

[Scot Eric]

Unexpectedly -- I received feedback from a contest that I (for the sheer hell of it) entered both my complete and polished first screenplay ("The White Whale") -- as well as the first draft of "When the Sun Goes Down".  The grading system adds up to 100, and as I would have expected -- "TWW" scored considerably better than "WTSGD", but it was a first draft.  Interesting scores and comments -- although it appears the last sentence of the final comments for "TWW" were cut off.

Just for posterity's sake -- I'll post the results here.

[Scot Eric]

2010 Expo Screenplay Competiton:
Your Feedback From A Contest Judge

Your Screenplay:  The White Whale

About The Judge Feedback And How To Use Feedback...Please Read This First

Your feedback below consists of your contest scores on three sets of judging criteria, plus the judge’s “extra” score, plus brief comments from the contest judge.

Sometimes it’s painful to receive feedback. We believe that  judge feedback is valuable in two ways:
It usually (but does not always) provides useful guidance to help you improve  your screenplay.
Whether or not it is good guidance for a rewrite, a judge’s opinion has validity as a marketplace reaction.  It is not necessarily true that others who read your script will react the same way, but you might want to consider the likelihood.  Our contest judges know what the industry buys.
Our Apologies For any Pain Received: Caveats About Judges’ Comments:

1. We instructed judges to be diplomatic and gentle, but truthful, with their freehand comments.   Alas, in a few cases, comments were harder-edged than we would have liked.  And some writers will feel hurt even by gentle comments.

2. As with any contest, our contest judges’ views are solely one judge’s opinion.

We sincerely apologize for any pain caused by feedback.  So we strongly urge you to look for the benefit and guidance in judges’ comments, and to remember that feedback is not the final word or necessarily the word of the industry as a whole on your script.  


Components Of Judge  Scores On Your Script:

Score 1: Title, Premise, Opening, Story: up to 30.0 points:

Judge was told: “Give one score of up to 30 points (you may use decimals), covering all of the criteria in this group.”  The criteria which comprise this score are:
    --Is the title appropriate, and did it catch your eye?
    --Did the opening grab your attention?
    --Is the premise/concept original and engaging?
    --Is the world of the story believable? (time, place, genre)?
    --Is the conflict set up effectively in the first 5-10 pages?
    --Is the script commercial in a known genre or market?
    --Description: is it tight, compelling, vividly written?
    --After the opening, did the story keep your attention?
    --Are there believable surprises to move the story along?”

Your Score 1: 23


Score 2: Characters and Dialogue: Up to 30 points:

Judge was told: “Give one score, up to 30, on your view of these considerations:”
   --Vivid, memorable, active protagonist?
    --Is protagonist's goal clear?
    --Was it clear what the protagonist stood to lose?
    --Did you see protagonist's internal flaw(s)/complexity?
    --Did the script establish protagonist's "Big Problem"?
    --Did the script make you root for the protagonist?
    --Character arc: Does protagonist change/solve problem?
    --Vivid, memorable, active antagonist?
    --Are other characters memorable?
    --Is dialogue real, natural, and appropriate to time/place?
    --Does each character have a distinct voice?
    --Can the characters be cast?”

Your Score 2: 25


Score 3: Format, Structure, Second Act, Ending: Up to 30 points:

The criteria are:
    --Is the script written in standard Hollywood format?
    --Are spelling, punctuation, and grammar correct?
    --Does the script have three clear acts?
    --Is there a midpoint twist/complication to keep Act II moving?
    --Is there a third act lowpoint when all seems lost?
    --How satisfying is the ending?

Your Score 3: 26


Score 4: Subjective “overall merit” score. Up to 10 points:

Judge was told: “This is your subjective judgment on artistic merit, theme, marketability, or other qualities you think are important. ...This subjective score allows you to give extra points to scripts which you think are especially deserving, or alternatively, to somewhat reduce the total score of a script that hit all its technical marks but just wasn’t magnificent overall.”

Your Score 4: 8

Your Total Score: 82        *See the note below if your total score was 25

*All total scores below 25 were restated as a score of 25.  Component scores were omitted because we could see no reason to bash writers by reporting extremely low scores.  A score of 25 or lower means that the contest judge believes your screenplay needs work on most fronts, and that you may need to formally study screenwriting.

Again, one judge's view is not nesessarily the final word on your script.

Judge’s Comments On Strengths:

Judge was told: “Enter at least a phrase, or as much as you want to say, up to 450 characters. “ If none, judge was told to write “See below” or similar words.   Judge’s comments on strengths of your script:

“Overall it was a good story and well written. There was clever dialogue and the majority of it was believable and it moved along at a good pace. I don't know if I would say it was a page turner but it kept my interest. The characters were believable and I liked them and wanted them to achieve their goals. It seems like it would make a good low-budget indie film. It could potentially do well on a higher budget, it just seems more oriented to a guy audience. A woman would be entertained but I don't know if it would be her first choice.”

Judge’s Comments On “Needs Improvement”:

Judge was told: “As kindly but clearly as possible, say what you think needs improvement. Briefly cover anything you want-–theme, story, plot, dialogue, structure, the opening, the ending, marketability, basic formatting, whatever. If no significant improvements come to mind, it's OK to write something like "none" or "no major issues." “

Judge’s suggested improvements to your script:

“The only scene I found a little unbelievable was that there was a thief that grabbed George's package in Sea World. Seems a strange place for a robbery, though, I did like George swimming in the orca tank...but just seemed oddly placed. It definitely hits ”

Note from me -- totally fine with the scores and even the comments -- just that last sentence "It definitely hits " -- with no punctuation either -- leads me to think the sentence/commentary was cut off.  A mystery I may never get an answer to (I e-mailed them about it, but doubt I'll get a response).

AMENDED:  They ACTUALLY RESPONDED to me about the final comment that seemed cut off -- received the revised feedback this morning.  Here's what the judge had to say in its entirety:

Judge’s suggested improvements to your script:

“The only scene I found a little unbelievable was that there was a thief that grabbed George's package in Sea World. Seems a strange place for a robbery, though, I did like George swimming in the orca tank...but just seemed oddly placed. It definitely hits the gritty, rated-R sort of indie or smaller budget mark if that's what the writer is going for, which I think from reading it that he is.”

YAY!  That's EXACTLY what I WAS going for -- now I feel better!

[Scot Eric]

When I was submitting "The White Whale" for this contest -- I decided to spend the extra 30-50 bucks and enter the draft I had only just completed of "When The Sun Goes Down".  Being a first draft, and one I knew had some obvious/major issues -- I entered it more ona whim than anything else.

I did NOT know that one of the benefits of this contest was you'd eventually get scores and feedback -- so even though I'm about halfway through the second draft (and the way I write -- it's like multiple drafts all in one sitting) -- this was still very interesting to read -- and I wasn't at all bothered by the lower scores (maybe getting the scores for "The White Whale" had already put me in a more positive frame of mind).  As for the "constructive criticism" -- I found that especially illuminating, as I can definitely agree with the majority of it -- and not sure how I feel about the rest of it.

Anyways -- still thought I should "archive" this here, so...

2010 Expo Screenplay Competiton:Your Feedback From A Contest Judge
Your Screenplay:  When the Sun Goes Down

About The Judge Feedback And How To Use Feedback...Please Read This First

Your feedback below consists of your contest scores on three sets of judging criteria, plus the judge’s “extra” score, plus brief comments from the contest judge.  Sometimes it’s painful to receive feedback.  We believe that judge feedback is valuable in two ways: It usually (but does not always) provides useful guidance to help you improve  your screenplay.  Whether or not it is good guidance for a rewrite, a judge’s opinion has validity as a marketplace reaction.  It is not necessarily true that others who read your script will react the same way, but you might want to consider the likelihood.  Our contest judges know what the industry buys.  Our Apologies For any Pain Received.

Caveats About Judges’ Comments:

1. We instructed judges to be diplomatic and gentle, but truthful, with their freehand comments.   Alas, in a few cases, comments were harder-edged than we would have liked.  And some writers will feel hurt even by gentle comments.

2. As with any contest, our contest judges’ views are solely one judge’s opinion. We sincerely apologize for any pain caused by feedback.  So we strongly urge you to look for the benefit and guidance in judges’ comments, and to remember that feedback is not the final word or necessarily the word of the industry as a whole on your script.  

Components Of Judge  Scores On Your Script:

Score 1: Title, Premise, Opening, Story: up to 30.0 points:

Judge was told: “Give one score of up to 30 points (you may use decimals), covering all of the criteria in this group.”  
The criteria which comprise this score are:    
--Is the title appropriate, and did it catch your eye?  
--Did the opening grab your attention?  
--Is the premise/concept original and engaging?    
--Is the world of the story believable? (time, place, genre)?  
--Is the conflict set up effectively in the first 5-10 pages?    
--Is the script commercial in a known genre or market?  
--Description: is it tight, compelling, vividly written?  
--After the opening, did the story keep your attention?
--Are there believable surprises to move the story along?”

Your Score 1: 18 (ouch)

Score 2: Characters and Dialogue: Up to 30 points:
 
Judge was told: “Give one score, up to 30, on your view of these considerations:”  
--Vivid, memorable, active protagonist?    
--Is protagonist's goal clear?    
--Was it clear what the protagonist stood to lose?    
--Did you see protagonist's internal flaw(s)/complexity?    
--Did the script establish protagonist's "Big Problem"?    
--Did the script make you root for the protagonist?    
--Character arc: Does protagonist change/solve problem?    
--Vivid, memorable, active antagonist?    
--Are other characters memorable?    
--Is dialogue real, natural, and appropriate to time/place?  
--Does each character have a distinct voice?    
--Can the characters be cast?”

Your Score 2: 16 (okay, that bummed me out a little -- but I suspect I know why the rating was lower than I would have expected -- it comes up later in the judge's comments)

Score 3: Format, Structure, Second Act, Ending: Up to 30 points:

The criteria are:  
--Is the script written in standard Hollywood format?    
--Are spelling, punctuation, and grammar correct?    
--Does the script have three clear acts?    
--Is there a midpoint twist/complication to keep Act II moving?    
--Is there a third act lowpoint when all seems lost?  
--How satisfying is the ending?

Your Score 3: 20

Score 4: Subjective “overall merit” score. Up to 10 points:

Judge was told:
“This is your subjective judgment on artistic merit, theme, marketability, or other qualities you think are important. ...This subjective score allows you to give extra points to scripts which you think are especially deserving, or alternatively, to somewhat reduce the total score of a script that hit all its technical marks but just wasn’t magnificent overall.”

Your Score 4: 4 (a little disappointed there too)
 
Your Total Score: 58    

Judge’s Comments On Strengths:

Judge was told:
“Enter at least a phrase, or as much as you want to say, up to 450 characters. “ If none, judge was told to write “See below” or similar words.

Judge’s comments on strengths of your script:

“Good imagination! Well-plotted, well-structured, fast-paced story with well-timed cuts between scenes, good knowledge of formatting and technique. Writer definitely shows promise.”

Judge’s Comments On “Needs Improvement”:
Judge was told: “As kindly but clearly as possible, say what you think needs improvement. Briefly cover anything you want-–theme, story, plot, dialogue, structure, the opening, the ending, marketability, basic formatting, whatever. If no significant improvements come to mind, it's OK to write something like "none" or "no major issues." “

Judge’s suggested improvements to your script:

“The characters could be better developed - they tend to be two-dimensional, familiar Western stereotypes and the dialogue leans heavily on whats supposed to be old Western vernacular, so much so that the story almost feels like a parody. There is too much carnage especially in 3rd Act so it becomes numbing instead of horrifying. Less is more!”

Note from me:

I totally get and even agree with the first comment.  There's a definite tendency for cliche & stereotype in my script, and I did fall way too in love with Old West slang in the first draft.  I've been trying to edit a lot of that down/out, as well as build up the main character (and perhaps a couple others) a bit more to reduce that two-dimensional quality.  But it's tough.

As for the carnage -- that's interesting -- hadn't thought of that too much before (I think there had been one comment from one or two people that echoed that a little bit).  Hard thing is -- you're damned if you do and damned if you don't -- as it is a Vampire Western, and not the barfy teen romance type of vamps either.

It'll be interesting to see if/how any of this impacts the 2nd draft - I will be getting some more feedback this week from some folks on the last 27 pages I've written (I stopped at page 53 -- have another project I need to work on as well) -- so it's not inconceivable that the combination of all the feedback MAY lead to more changes going both backwards AND forwards.  One never knows...

[Scot Eric]

Got a little good news this AM -- the contest sent me a revised feedback for "The White Whale" -- with the complete comments in the final/needs improvement section.  I'm glad I e-mailed them about it -- because I actually LIKE what the final thought was after "It definitely hits".  For the one or two people who are bothering to read this -- just scroll up to read the complete feedback for that final section!

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